tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post4629096646612779075..comments2024-03-14T18:26:18.208-07:00Comments on autism's gadfly: Does Neurodiversity help autistics with self-esteem?jonathanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14972394536850151087noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-49327576656701568222009-03-03T10:12:00.000-08:002009-03-03T10:12:00.000-08:00Joseph, I don't know whether or not you have read ...Joseph, I don't know whether or not you have read my article "neurodiversity: just say no" and I don't have the URL handy, but I think you know the address of my Jonathan's stories website on which I have the article. You might consider reading that article if you have not read it yet. I do suggest that the autistics who believe in the ND movement are qualitatively different than those who might not, or at least they are not a representative sample of autistics. One of the main reasons is that so many of them are females in spite of the 4:1 ratio on average shown in the epidemiologic studies. Also, females from the general population of autistics are usually more severe than males as a statistical group, So I believe that many of these people are very unique brand of autistics. <BR/><BR/>I doubt that the article that I cited in my post really proves anything, but I guess I can't comment further since I have only read the abstract and not the article itself. However, you might want to read Jake Crosby's latest post on the age of autism webpage. He has done his homework and unlike me has read the entire paper and gives a very interesting take on the methodological problems with this paper and what it is trying to prove. I am going to give his post a shout out in my next blog entry.jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14972394536850151087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-91288455367582603522009-03-03T09:29:00.000-08:002009-03-03T09:29:00.000-08:00Sam Best and Connor Doherty would probably not fun...<I>Sam Best and Connor Doherty would probably not function at the level to have the same career aspirations as most ND autistics</I><BR/><BR/>As I recently argued, the same could be said about their functioning level relative to autistics who <I>oppose</I> neurodiversity, such as yourself, Jon. <BR/><BR/>You have not demonstrated that autistics who actively favor neurodiversity are any different, as a group, to autistics who actively oppose neurodiversity. The group size differences don't allow you to make such comparisons. <BR/><BR/>If such differences exist, I would not be surprised at all to learn that "self-esteem" is indeed among said differences. Functioning level, not so much.<BR/><BR/>If you think about it, it's probably impossible for an autistic person to have any self-esteem, unless they approve of the concept of neurodiversity (present anecdotal evidence aside.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-77481983020226337012009-03-02T09:29:00.000-08:002009-03-02T09:29:00.000-08:00Two weeks ago I realized that my father almost cer...Two weeks ago I realized that my father almost certainly has Aspergers, and upon further reading online then realized that I match the female version of Aspergers. If there's a cure one day, I want it. I don't like being socially/emotionally blind. I want to see what everyone else can see.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-8222336339663483822009-03-01T09:50:00.000-08:002009-03-01T09:50:00.000-08:00poison ivy is something that is an irritant, the s...poison ivy is something that is an irritant, the same way the ND movement is. <BR/><BR/>I do believe in human rights and treating autistic people with dignity. Unlike those in the ND movement I do not believe these nobel causes and the nobel cause of doing scientific research to find a cure for autism and to prevent autism are goals that are mutually exclusive from one another. <BR/><BR/>It would be nice if the ND movement were truly about human rights and giving dignity and help to those with autism. Unfortunately, this is nothing but propaganda on the ND's part. Their movement is only about maligning decent people who want to help give a better life for their children, even if a cure is not a reality in the forseeable future. They do not want to do anything constructive. All they do is start internet wars and engage in name calling insults and other forms of abuse. Or crusade against things they find offensive (and they are quite an easily offended group). None of their activities helps people with disabilities in the slightest. Though autism speaks may not be a perfect organization, they spread lies about it, claiming they are deliberately trying to find ways to abort autistic fetuses. All one has to do is go to the AS website and see what scientific projects they fund to see the absurdity of these arguments.jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14972394536850151087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-32715192076079112732009-03-01T06:34:00.000-08:002009-03-01T06:34:00.000-08:00Maybe slightly off topic, but I’d like to share so...Maybe slightly off topic, but I’d like to share some recent issues I faced relating to misconception of what autism. A friend with an ASD is coming to visit me shortly. I tried to get her/him (I’ll say him) into a dance workshop with me. This is a type of expression that is (at least it seemed to) very open-minded about conventionality, very intuitive and very in touch with true self, particularly with regard to expression and relationships. Well, surprisingly, the answer was; not sure about that. My friend also wants to take part to the conference on autism I am due to speak at and I thought, accompanying me, she could come for free. But that’s not possible, she has to pay, almost the full cost, she can have early bird discount but this is way above what an adult with ASD can pay for. So, in others words, someone with autism, adult, who do not have support from parents anymore cannot attend to a conference that bear the name of her condition. Later, I also talked to my own mother about my friend coming, and here again the answer was unexpected: be careful. Whilst that last incident made me laugh, the others two made me angry. I thought, my friend does not even have 5% of my son’s difficulties, and I have to educate everyone around her for her to be accepted. We are in for a very good time when my son will be an adult, that’s very worrying. <BR/><BR/><BR/>But going back to the idea of a village build around an ASD person in order to provide an accepting community, maybe this does not require to move to Africa, but for each of us to “educate” positively about the condition, if we have 1:100 with an ASD today, each of us can easily communicate with 100 NT persons positively about the condition and in no time at all the entire world will be a place with a stronger and more knowledgeable view of what autism and together with this. Some charities are helping with regard to this, in the UK the NAS is good in that respect. Last night I saw for the first time an advert on British TV that presented someone with autism commuting in the train with a helper, saying that a little understanding about this condition can make’s this person’s journey much easier. It was well done, I think that’s a good way to promote information. <BR/><BR/>Surely Jonathan, you can see that perhaps not everything is bad about the ND movement and there must be ways to use these lines of thoughts and views to help with regard to both assistance and acceptance. <BR/><BR/>What was that poison ivy stuff about???? :-)SM69https://www.blogger.com/profile/16239400845268784984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-63015367231977280762009-02-25T23:47:00.000-08:002009-02-25T23:47:00.000-08:00It may not all be about defense mechanisms and imp...It may not all be about defense mechanisms and improving one's self-esteem like with the "So and so was dyslexic and look at what he accomplished...<BR/>whoop-dee-doo!" speech.<BR/><BR/>It could be naiveness, such as someone like myself, who has always been that way due to being 'slow' which partially results from not having my expressive-receptive language problems being fully treated until now. As a result, I'm a 'clockwork orange' autistic who's an easy target of falling into bad traps; this includes mainly autistics of<BR/>Neurodiversity who aren't clockwork oranges.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-24571775382442827112009-02-25T08:45:00.000-08:002009-02-25T08:45:00.000-08:00Hi Silk thanks for your post. I suspect that a nu...Hi Silk thanks for your post. I suspect that a number of autistics/aspies hold the point of view of your son and come to the conclusion that having an ASD is "sucky" (great way to put it). Of course there is the concept of the silent majority, made silent both by the fact that some autistics will be too impaired to write how they feel on the internet. The second factor being, that they just can't deal with the bully boy tactics of the angry and hateful neurodiversity people. <BR/><BR/>Your post sort of disproves the inane statements that Clay Adams was making here recently that persons with autism only come to the attitude that autism is a bad thing because that is how they are taught by their parents. Your son's case would seem to imply the opposite might be true at least in some cases.jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14972394536850151087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-29206640242322667712009-02-25T01:15:00.000-08:002009-02-25T01:15:00.000-08:00I would love for my aspie son to have higher self ...I would love for my aspie son to have higher self esteem, but ever since he's become aware (he figured it out for himself) that he's not typical, well, he's not thrilled about it. I've tried the ND approach with him, the "autism is another way of being" speech. He corrected me, "no, autism is a sucky way of being." And I can't argue with him, a lot of his time is spent learning to adapt to a world that is unlikely to adapt for him. He is horribly anxious. How on earth do we put a positive spin on that? I accept him the way that he is, but I won't stop trying to find ways fix it, or at least improve it. For whoever finds comfort in the ND movement, well, good for them I guess. I'm still looking, and I won't apologize for not settling. Thank you for giving a voice to this view point.<BR/><BR/>P.s. I love the Africa concept. I would gladly build my son a village like that if I could.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-48539749913039135172009-02-25T00:27:00.000-08:002009-02-25T00:27:00.000-08:00Hi Anon! I like your style of writing, how more im...Hi Anon! I like your style of writing, how more impact in fewer words could you get? I am somehow familiar with this, too familiar I may say. I think you are right, it does not look like this study relates much to autism, though I did not read the paper either, but the points made by J. are valid none the less in my opinion. I think we are talking at a more general level, the study initiated that discussion, and I think this is just fine.SM69https://www.blogger.com/profile/16239400845268784984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-42599565824315190102009-02-24T06:57:00.000-08:002009-02-24T06:57:00.000-08:00This 'study' is innately wrong based on its grand ...This 'study' is innately wrong based on its grand assumption that these self-diagnosed and out-right blatant feigning propagandists of 'neurodiversity' are even autisticAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-52516791007357668722009-02-23T12:28:00.000-08:002009-02-23T12:28:00.000-08:00I think your analysis is accurate; most likely peo...I think your analysis is accurate; most likely people who embrace ND are higher functioning and therefore will tend to be less depressed, but this is true up to a point. I know of many people who are very bright, very able, but are also very depressed and their awareness and intelligence do not protect them form depression, but rather the reverse. I mean, the world is pretty depressing and the more you know about it, the less sense it all makes… that sort of thinking. But to be part of a group, to be involved in an action is a perfect way to fight off depression, ND or gardening, doesn’t really matter, benefits will be the same, I think. <BR/><BR/>Your comment on parents turning to ND after trying various interventions is totally correct too. But funny enough many of them actually refuse to say that have done a diet, that they have done a Biomed intervention, they have done ABA etc. And instead they can criticize other parents who are trying their best to help their autistic with today’s best means, they tell them, you don’t accept your child and they can be very aggressive and judgmental. And I think this is cheap and dishonest, towards themselves most of all. Anyone has anxieties about autism to have that condition makes the chance of success, independence, fulfillment, much lower, who would not recognize this simple fact?<BR/><BR/>Having said this, I want to add one thing to this- I have some families of kids with autism who have returned to live in Africa in more rural village environments and obviously under very different cultural (as well as economical settings). Well, as it turned out the ASD kids were much more outdoors (i.e. more in tune with nature, more physical activity, more play, less computer etc) and were invited to go and play in the streets with other kids in a more integrated and spontaneous way, going in and out of a next door’s house, being welcomed more easily, irrespectively of their difference. Security was not so much of an issue as the collectivity spirit is higher. That sort of setting was very beneficial to the child. So if we were to have a more accepting attitude, I mean a real truly accepting one and more support from the community and more services, together with more trust that it’s OK to be different, things would be almost certainly better for the individuals and their family. But what we do not want is to romanticize ND movement and pulled out services and let people who have more difficulties to cope on their own (or not).SM69https://www.blogger.com/profile/16239400845268784984noreply@blogger.com