tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post3070749241225763910..comments2024-03-14T18:26:18.208-07:00Comments on autism's gadfly: more lies and hatred from neurodiversityjonathanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14972394536850151087noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-86407010192355022672009-01-31T11:43:00.000-08:002009-01-31T11:43:00.000-08:00"I learned to hate autism and wish for a cure, fro..."I learned to hate autism and wish for a cure, from having to suffer from years of rejection, years of having to be addicted to self-stimulatory behaviors and not being able to attend regular school or make a living or have any sort of a near normal life that many if not most of the neurodiversity proponents enjoy and take for granted and a multitude of other disabilities and problems that are too lengthy to mention in this already long post"<BR/><BR/>The 'cure' for you is quite simple-you may need to get ahold of and work on your self-pity.<BR/> Why do you think that *you* are entitled to this fantasy 'near normal' life you mention, or believe that you are worse off than the "many, if not most(exaggerate much?) ND proponents" you mention here, or that you are entitled to *anything* at all, for that matter? Is that written in the stars somewhere? <BR/><BR/>This self pitying attitude colors everything you think and then write about.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-82563245577868869512009-01-26T23:11:00.000-08:002009-01-26T23:11:00.000-08:00Apparently Clay Adams is still posing as Ivar and ...Apparently Clay Adams is still posing as Ivar and leaving me abusive comments which I am rejecting. He said that if I said nothing insulting that he would be done with the issue. As I have not posted anything new on ABFH's thread since he said that, obviously it is not true. It is a shame he has to keep doing that. <BR/><BR/>This is something for all those folks who are beating me up in the leftbrain/right brain thread and giving a one sided account of what happened to think about. This is what I have to contend with and hard not to respond in kind. Again, I do have some regrets that I stooped to the ND's level and ended up being just as abusive as they were, but sometimes it is difficult not to turn the other cheek. Something for all of them who are implying that I somehow started this food fight to think about.jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14972394536850151087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-7932822376075504582009-01-26T15:02:00.000-08:002009-01-26T15:02:00.000-08:00Maybe you are contagious, Art (VBG), guess I will ...Maybe you are contagious, Art (VBG), guess I will have to lay off of Michelle for a while myself.jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14972394536850151087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-84751339636358196832009-01-26T11:37:00.000-08:002009-01-26T11:37:00.000-08:00What delightful people some of the curebies are. ...What delightful people some of the curebies are. *biting sarcasm*Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-43672841077261300702009-01-26T10:32:00.000-08:002009-01-26T10:32:00.000-08:00Jonathan,Thank you for the quick and detailed repl...Jonathan,<BR/><BR/>Thank you for the quick and detailed reply, with specific suggestions. <BR/><BR/>My issue is not just Facilitated Communication but the true intelligence of persons considered to have "low-functioning" autism and my reasons (other than the research of Michelle Dawson) to believe for over 20 years that they generally have superior intelligence. I hope you will be up to an open discussion soon.<BR/> <BR/>I think I now have Michelle Dawson "out of my system."<BR/><BR/>Uh, I do note that the title of 3 of your last 6 blogs start with Michelle Dawson...<BR/><BR/>ArtArthur Goldenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03177577505916908123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-58227140318051615232009-01-26T10:11:00.000-08:002009-01-26T10:11:00.000-08:00Hi Arthur, I would prefer not to comment on facili...Hi Arthur, I would prefer not to comment on facilitated communication at this time, but I may at some point. <BR/><BR/>If I have ever been harsh towards people it was because they have been harsh, abusive and insulting to me, harshness may beget harshness. I realize personal attacks and insults are par for the course for the neurodiversity movement. <BR/><BR/>From what little I know about Michelle banning you from her blog and comment board, she seemed to feel that you were trying to control her and order her around I remember her saying and telling her she must do this and that. But I really don't know the whole circumstances and I guess you will have to take that up with Michelle. <BR/><BR/>Of course if you are obsessed with Michelle and want to refute what she says, or counter anything she says on her blog or comment board I suppose you could start your own blog or website to refute what she says if you can't do it on her blog.<BR/><BR/>I had to ban someone from autism's gadfly and this person has made a parody blog which tries to dispute everything I say. I suppose you could do the same thing with Michelle.jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14972394536850151087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-3967789960791442009-01-26T09:26:00.000-08:002009-01-26T09:26:00.000-08:00Jonathan,You and Harold Doherty must not be too ba...Jonathan,<BR/><BR/>You and Harold Doherty must not be too bad because you two have not been banned by Michelle Dawson from posting to her QuickTopic discussion board and her blog. I have the distinction that I have been banned by Michelle Dawson. Still, I do think that you both are being unfairly treated by Michelle Dawson and her friends.<BR/><BR/>While I agree with much of what you and Harold Doherty have to write, I do find your language to be harsh and if you are not banned for such language and I have been banned by Michelle Dawson (with her sterling reputation with so many people), what impression does the public have about my language! Actually, in this context, I think I have been very unfairly treated by Michelle Dawson. I tried to discuss this issue with Michelle Dawson by private email but she completely ignored my several emails (less than 10, including copies of emails to others) that I have sent her during the past year. Instead Michelle Dawson publicly falsely charged me with serious misbehavior including most recently a serious felony. I find the typed language used by Michelle Dawson and her friends to be very harsh, in contrast to the typed language produced by my son Ben and others with "low-functioning" autism through Facilitated Communication. As I already mentioned to you, I think it is futile to try to discuss anything with Michelle Dawson and her friends (unless of course you absolutely agree with her).<BR/><BR/>Although I find your language "harsh" I do understand it is in response to even harsher language against you. But I am interested in trying to understand why the tone of my son's language seems so different from persons with "high-functioning" autism. As I wrote in a previous comment, it seems that the use of Facilitated Communication does actually overcome all the communication issues associated with autism. Do you or anyone else have any thoughts on these issues you would like to share with me?<BR/><BR/>Arthur GoldenArthur Goldenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03177577505916908123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-53260082738611224002009-01-26T06:20:00.000-08:002009-01-26T06:20:00.000-08:00jonathan said... "...So far if there is a way to g...jonathan said... <BR/><BR/>"...So far if there is a way to get a nonverbal autistic to speak and ND has a solution without curing the child, they certainly have not shown it to anyone...."<BR/><BR/>January 23, 2009 9:22 AM<BR/><BR/>Then <BR/><BR/>Ender said... <BR/><BR/>"A nonverbal child to speak... does anyone else notice the problem there. But lets overlook that problem and ask you about DJ Savarese or the like. He has a book deal for crying out loud. Do you really think he has that much trouble speaking? Yet by most definations he would be almost as severely autistic as Sam Best. His parents are ND though."<BR/><BR/>January 25, 2009 4:08 PM <BR/><BR/>DJ Savarese, a young teenager, is nonverbal, as is my soon-to-be 37 year old son Ben, and both of them are "low-functioning" autistics who communicate "just fine" (my son Ben's phrase) with Facilitated Communication ("FC"). By the way, Michelle Dawson rejects Facilitated Communication because the "FC promoters" such as Professor Douglas Biklen of Syracuse University have been unable during the past 20 years to conduct scientific research to validate FC that meets Michelle Dawson's so-called "recognized standards of science and ethics." So, since Michelle Dawson opposes it, I hope you will at least consider the use of FC which allows nonverbal autistics to "overcome all the communication issues of autism" (again, my son Ben's phrase) even though many "high-functioning" autistics continue to have serious communication issues. So while Dawson's research may not be able to show that autistics with low IQ scores are really quite intelligent, I believe that FC does show they generally have superior intelligence. Unlike Michelle Dawson and her friends, you can have an open discussion with me about FC and my other positions about autism.<BR/><BR/>Arthur Golden of Jerusalem IsraelArthur Goldenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03177577505916908123noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-45882050359130573182009-01-26T04:41:00.000-08:002009-01-26T04:41:00.000-08:00Maybe the kid Ender is talking about is the one wh...Maybe the kid Ender is talking about is the one who did a video with Amanda Baggs. If so, there's something wrong there since Baggs is a criminal. The kid must have been presented in some bogus fashion.<BR/>Ender keeps hounding about some kid who wrote a book, as if any kid has anything worthwhile to say. Learning to hit a baseball is much more important to the kid's overall well being, and a lot better for his reputation than hanging around with criminals.John Besthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03133970669787632440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-51088117280776086942009-01-25T19:24:00.000-08:002009-01-25T19:24:00.000-08:00P.S. I think he rights pretty damn good for a midd...<I>P.S. I think he rights pretty damn good for a middle schooler</I><BR/><BR/>Perhaps you should work on your grammar, it is writes, not rights. <BR/><BR/>I don't understand how he could be as severe as John Best's son and do better than he is, sounds like an oxymoron to me. But I won't comment any further and just let Best answer you if he wants to. I know that he reads this blog on a regular basis and comments here not infrequently and he may have a response to your comment since it seems to be in large part about his son. Still not quite sure what your point is, but maybe John Best will discuss it with you on here.jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14972394536850151087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-91606966754338783182009-01-25T18:59:00.000-08:002009-01-25T18:59:00.000-08:00P.S. I think he rights pretty damn good for a mid...P.S. I think he rights pretty damn good for a middle schooler, granted he wouldn't normally get a writing contract, but certainly hes doing a lot better the Sam is right now. And fyi, I have met him, he screams (sometimes literally) low functioning autistic in every last single way.Enderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13936753464525224578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-20129232173924957422009-01-25T18:55:00.000-08:002009-01-25T18:55:00.000-08:00Actually I was talking about a kid who is much mor...Actually I was talking about a kid who is much more successful in the world then Sam will ever be, with just as severe of autism, despite his parents believing in ND and never even daring to try chelation. That sounds a lot better to me. Little bit about him here, http://www.reasonable-people.com/writings.htmlEnderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13936753464525224578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-50111706394408813342009-01-25T18:34:00.000-08:002009-01-25T18:34:00.000-08:00Oh, sorry, Bryan, though I don't know who you are ...Oh, sorry, Bryan, though I don't know who you are referring to, I think I get the point of your post. You are saying that having a severely autistic child does not necessarily preclude someone from believing in ND. Well I think I have an explaination for what you are saying. You might be interested in reading my posts both on autism's gadfly and in my prior blog, Jonathan's journal that address that issue. <BR/><BR/>I write about psychologic defense mechanisms such as reaction formation and denial which give the genesis to neurodiversity and that explains how some parents of severely autistic children might embrace ND. I can't give you the exact links, but if you look on here and in my journal on my Jonathan's stories web page you will probably be able to find them. <BR/><BR/>If I remember correctly, you are going to school pursuing a masters in special ed. Well, then it is possible you have studied freudian psychology, so you would be familiar with defense mechanisms such as reaction formation and how they could compel someone to become a member of the ND crowd.jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14972394536850151087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-44264534662619311542009-01-25T18:27:00.000-08:002009-01-25T18:27:00.000-08:00I really don't know, Bryan, don't know who that is...I really don't know, Bryan, don't know who that is.jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14972394536850151087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-77084415180720728302009-01-25T16:08:00.000-08:002009-01-25T16:08:00.000-08:00A nonverbal child to speak... does anyone else not...A nonverbal child to speak... does anyone else notice the problem there. But lets overlook that problem and ask you about DJ Sarvese or the like. He has a book deal for crying out loud. Do you really think he has that much trouble speaking? Yet by most definations he would be almost as severely autistic as Sam Best. His parents are ND though.Enderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13936753464525224578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-38539027807190295552009-01-23T11:29:00.000-08:002009-01-23T11:29:00.000-08:00I have the interview on my blog. "anti cure does ...I have the interview on my blog. "anti cure does not mean anti progress" were the words Ne'eman used. At the end Sawyer made a comment and had a look on her face that said they were all nuts.John Besthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03133970669787632440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-80955151323310307602009-01-23T09:22:00.000-08:002009-01-23T09:22:00.000-08:00No, watch the video again, alyric which is on the ...No, watch the video again, alyric which is on the internet somewhere. You will see that the interviewer (i forgot her name) asks Ari what should be done about autistics who can't speak etc. Ari responds with the typical ND copout that being anti-cure does not mean anti-progress. So far if there is a way to get a nonverbal autistic to speak and ND has a solution without curing the child, they certainly have not shown it to anyone. <BR/><BR/>After the interview the topic of neurodiversity in general was discussed, not specifically Kristina's response and then Sawyer made her profound statements. Sawyer is a journalist with a ton of experience going back to decades before Ari was conceived. She can see a snow job and a copout when she hears one, so she did not gloss over Ari's statements. <BR/><BR/>The facts are there no matter how much phoney baloney spin you want to put on them.jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14972394536850151087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-2902715563866092842009-01-23T07:35:00.000-08:002009-01-23T07:35:00.000-08:00Sawyer's comment was a direct response to Kristina...Sawyer's comment was a direct response to Kristina's acceptance leading to hope yada yada. The fact that you wanted it to be about cure doesn't change anything.Alyrichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13293946886969452901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-87222660421906633772009-01-22T17:57:00.000-08:002009-01-22T17:57:00.000-08:00Alyric,I wouldn't advise Jonathan to have anything...Alyric,<BR/>I wouldn't advise Jonathan to have anything to do with the likes of you, not even to get a quick hummer.John Besthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03133970669787632440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-16745931752547314912009-01-22T16:08:00.000-08:002009-01-22T16:08:00.000-08:00As is typical, Ali, you get it wrong again. She s...As is typical, Ali, you get it wrong again. She said it about neurodiversity, you are also full of baloney as far as Ari's statement went. It was not about acceptance versus progress it was cure versus progress when Ari was asked by the interviewer what should be done about autistics who can't speak, etc. it was a complete copout on the part of a 20-year-old kid with no life experience whatsoever. <BR/><BR/><BR/>Nothing wrong with keeping company with Harold Doherty, though the only company I keep with him is just occasionally posting in his blog and him posting here and giving me a link which I never asked him to give me. Though he and I disagree on ABA and other issues, he is a decent well-intentioned man who only wants the best for his son, whose disability is far more severe than yours (assuming you are in fact on the autistic spectrum) and he engages in polite and civil discourse when discussing things on blogs (unlike yourself). <BR/><BR/>Considering how abusive you have been to me, and to other people in the past, I dont think you should be criticizing John Best. There is an old saying about throwing stones in a house made of fragile glass. <BR/><BR/>I have never written any hate articles. It is you and the rest of the ND movement that promotes hatred and bigotry and intolerance.jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14972394536850151087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-33603657592182957012009-01-22T14:52:00.000-08:002009-01-22T14:52:00.000-08:00"As American television personality Diane Sawyer p..."As American television personality Diane Sawyer put it so eloquently,neurodiversity is just a beautiful way of justifying heartbreak."<BR/><BR/>That's not true. She said it about acceptance and for her that wasn't true because in order to make that statement she had to gloss right over Ari's point that acceptance didn't mean not making progess. Two lies won't get you closer to the truth.<BR/><BR/>Careful with the company you keep - the comments list is headed by JBest jr and Doherty's in there as well. Not good if you think that sort of thing rubs off and you said as much in your hate article.Alyrichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13293946886969452901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-81476768879483512012009-01-22T06:19:00.000-08:002009-01-22T06:19:00.000-08:00I don’t think the problem is about the Neuro-diver...<I>I don’t think the problem is about the Neuro-diversity per se, we should encourage and welcome neuro-diversity in my opinion</I><BR/><BR/>I welcome neurodiversity about as much as poison ivy or hemorrhoids. <BR/>As American television personality Diane Sawyer put it so eloquently,neurodiversity is just a beautiful way of justifying heartbreak. <BR/><BR/><BR/><I>hopefully you'll recognise the true nature of the attacks when they come next and can relax about them. Have a drink, or a smoke or what ever relaxes you instead. Cheers.</I> <BR/><BR/>The true nature of the attacks are nothing but hatred, bigotry and bitterness generated by heartbreak. If you think I should relax about people calling me a liar, taking cheap shots at my disability, deliberately fabricating what I say and even insulting my parents, that is your problem, not mine.jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14972394536850151087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-55341192040482059672009-01-22T00:26:00.000-08:002009-01-22T00:26:00.000-08:00Well that's a big argument- I have never encounter...Well that's a big argument- I have never encountered as much argument elsewhere than amongst people with HFA/AS. At times it’s very draining and tiring and I am not sure if it is wise of me to even attempt to comment here. <BR/><BR/>The way I have taken these arguments when addressed to me is to systematically divide by at least a factor 10 the anger, hatred, destructiveness that seem to be attached to the comments in order to avoid over reacting in matching level to their intensity (I am not saying that I have successfully managed to not over react though, but I am learning as I go along). In my opinion, people with autism, present with gating issues. There is no middle road, it’s either good or it’s bad, there are not a great deal of grays. Whilst most NT people on a scale of 1-10 would be able to express all level of emotions gradually to level 10, I have found that very commonly an autistic person will pass from 2 to 10 with no step in between. I feel that to answer to this at level 10 is not very helpful, actually it is destructive. I see what you are reporting here is that that sort of argument and irrationality is almost always attached to a level 10,being dsiplsy by a NT or ASD person, and you are dealing with it just now. <BR/><BR/>Another important aspect I have observed when relating to someone with autism, is that it’s often easier, as if the need for conversation was clearer, when the series of exchanges contains anger, attacks and provocation. I assume this is because the motivation to answer are higher, the emotions attached being the drive. It seems to be much more difficult for a person with autism to dialogue when a more neutral mutual free flow around a topic unrelated to the person is needed, like discussing an academic subject, say exploring the meaning of a play for example. I think everyone with autism wants to communicate and relate, I am pretty certain of this, but know everyone knows how to. Sometimes, it’s actually easier to argue. Send a stinker on a blog and get all these answers and you feel suddenly important, for one you upset everyone, for two, you appear as if you relate, and the person does relate, but this is hard work, and very destructive.<BR/><BR/>I don’t think the problem is about the Neuro-diversity per se, we should encourage and welcome neuro-diversity in my opinion, and everyone is free to have an opinion on what matter to them most. But one other aspect attached with autism as you probably know, is that self-centered attitude. People tend to focus on themselves, not on someone else who happened to share the same diagnosis, but actually does not have the same difficulties or needs. What you view as important to you is valid for you and people like yourself but it might not be for other autistics who have managed to get mainstream education, hold a job, got married etc, they are different and have different needs, even if fundamentally they have the same issues, you see what I mean right?. In my view the diagnosis of autism solely based on 3 main behavioural characteristics is very limited, because it regroups people who are very different, who require different understanding and different answers. People with autism yes should speak for other autistics, but can they do something else than arguing? Can they reach a consensus on behalf of a group and not just about themselves or their views? I think that is a big challenge. <BR/><BR/>I am not here to be critical or negative of autism, I love people with autism, but one has also to be realistic and not sentimental about this. You are dealing exactly with the consequences of what autism is about, I don’t even think there is anything personal about this, this is autism for you, served on a nice silver tray. And you'll have this again and again and again, but hopefully you'll recognise the true nature of the attacks when they come next and can relax about them. Have a drink, or a smoke or what ever relaxes you instead. Cheers.SM69https://www.blogger.com/profile/16239400845268784984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-48418315653167099252009-01-21T23:28:00.000-08:002009-01-21T23:28:00.000-08:00JonathanYou know you are having an impact when you...Jonathan<BR/><BR/>You know you are having an impact when you elicit such hostile reactions.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05838571980003579163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8353442983052145851.post-29324271510421049152009-01-21T12:49:00.000-08:002009-01-21T12:49:00.000-08:00Yes, John, I agree, no rational person would belie...Yes, John, I agree, no rational person would believe in neurodiversity. Assuming Clay Adams has any intelligence whatsoever it seems strange that he would publically make this bogus claim that I stated that I learned to hate autism at my mother's knee, when the comment Ivar made and my answer to him were a matter of public record and then he would print out the own damning evidence refuting his own argument, go figure.jonathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14972394536850151087noreply@blogger.com